PASS IT ON WEBINAR – July 31, 2007

                                    LOCATING EQUIPMENT

                     CAROLINE VAN HOWE: . . . about this Pass It On

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                     Also, the public-chat area -- and I'll talk to you

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             Carolyn Phillips will be our main speaker today.  One, you

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                     A couple of other information for you, we are

             recording this session, so there will be an MP3 sound file

             and also a copy of the slides.  So if you want to go back

             and refresh your memory or also pass it on to other people,

             we will be posting those on the Pass It On Web page in a

             short while.  I think that's all for now.

                     Carolyn, I'd like to hand it back over to you as

             our main speaker for today's webinar.

                     CAROLYN PHILLIPS:  Thank you so much, Caroline.  I

             really appreciate that.  You're always so good at walking

             us through the details here, so thank you very much.

                     We are going to be doing -- having this recorded

             and putting this on our Web site so that folks can access

             it as an archive document.  This is especially important.

             I really like this feature, and I'm very glad about it

             because there are a lot of folks that said they weren't

             going to be able to attend today, so I think quite a few

             folks are going to be joining us by looking at it through

             the archive.

                     This is one of those topics that's a really hot

             topic because a lot of folks get very anxious about their

             reuse program because it's kind of stepping out.  It's a

             leap of faith, if you will, that you are going to have

             equipment.  And I think that that's one of the things that

             was probably one of my biggest concerns when I was first

             getting into the reuse business, if you will, because you

             just don't know if you're going to actually get the

             equipment and when it's going to come and how it's going to

             come.  And one of the cool things about being in the field,

             if you will, and involved directly with a reuse program is,

             you actually get to experience seeing the equipment come in

             unexpectedly and answering some of those big prayers or big

             requests or what have you, whatever you want to call them

             that you lift up.

                     So our first slide here -- I've got our Web site up

             here and the Web -- this will be on the passitoncenter.org.

             This presentation will be there.  And it will be in our

             grantees' area.  And so that's where it will be.

                     And Tom's actually helping me out.  He's going to

             be pushing the slides for me, and so, Tom, I'm ready for

             the next slide.

                     So I wanted to start off with just a thought here,

             and it's basically "Work Smarter, Not Harder."  And I think

             that a lot of times when I'm working with folks and when

             I'm working with some of y'all, actually, with your

             programs, that a lot of times what ends up happening is, we

             get some big ideas.  And we're going to do a big equipment

             drive, and we're going to, you know, have a billboard that

             announces our programs and all kinds of things.  And those

             are great ideas.  But sometimes there's a lot of work

             behind that.  So we need to think about, how can we really

             maximize the exposure and not wear ourselves out?  So

             working smarter, not harder.

                     And so I'm actually going to share with you some

             things that some of you have shared with us as far as tips

             of what to do and what not to do, some of my own

             experiences.  And hopefully, if you would like to share

             some experiences with us, that would be great too.  So next

             slide.

                     Our agenda is pretty simple.  Basically, I'm going

             to be talking about, "Be careful what you ask for."  And

             that's a little bit of those tips that I was going to talk

             about.  And just make sure that folks are aware of the

             dangers when you open those doors and say, "Yes, we're

             looking for equipment."

 

                  Tips For Accepting and Refusing Donated Equipment

 

                     And the "and refusing" is definitely a very

             important piece because that becomes a PR piece.  Thinking

             about some strategic partnerships that you might want to

             have and folks that you want to start involving.  Marketing

             ideas -- in particular, we're talking about hosting an

             event and how to create some energy and awareness around

             that.

                     And then, I was hoping that we could share a little

             bit about successful practices and lessons learned.  And so

             we'll go to the next slide -- so be careful what you ask

             for.

                                   White Elephants

 

                     I'm not sure how many of y'all are familiar with a

             white-elephant-gift idea, but we actually, down here, with

             our team with Tools For Life have this, kind of,

             white-elephant party every year where folks bring things

             that are not necessarily bad gifts.  They're just things

             that you can't use, or you don't want to use, or it could

             be random things that just don't fit anymore.  But you

             know, it's still a good thing.

                     And this actually came from Thailand where they

             would say that -- there was kind of a story that went with

             this in Thailand when I was over there.  That's when I

             first kind of heard about it where the king actually would

             give a white elephant -- which is a very prized possession,

             a very cool thing to have -- to different countries or

             different areas, and it was not necessarily to do them

             harm, but they would sometimes go bankrupt trying to take

             care of this white elephant, which they really didn't need.

             It was not something that was really helping them.  But

             they also, you know, felt, oh, so honored that they got

             this beautiful thing from the king.  And so that's kind of

             the legend behind the white elephant.

                     Well, I think there are oftentimes that we get

             white elephants in the reuse program because folks

             sometimes do see us as a great place to donate that . . .

             whatever it is.  I have had folks that have wanted to

             donate boats.  I have had folks that have said, "Oh, gosh,

             we can give you our RV because we're upgrading," and that

             RV is from, you know, the 1950s, and they think it's a

             great thing.  And they have a lot of memories around it,

             but it's not necessarily what you need for your reuse

             program.

                     Or I've had folks that have said, you know, "Oh,

             you can take all this equipment, and you can have the whole

             closetful."  And you get there and the closet is actually a

             warehouse, and it's full of, you know, copy machines and

             all kinds of other office equipment that may really be hard

             to get rid of.  But it may be really valuable.

                     And so it's important, you know, to just be aware

             that it's not easy to turn down free stuff, especially when

             we know that so many folks are out there and that have

             needs.  And when you open up those doors and you see, oh,

             gosh, you know, this StairClimber is so wonderful, and I

             know somebody will need it.  Well, but they may need it in

             five years, and there may not be somebody that's waiting

             right now for it.  And so what ends up happening is that

             sometimes that will weigh down your program.

                     So as your efforts grow and you become more well

             known, you may receive some of these offers, and some of

             you actually have because I know we've talked about it.

             And so these donations -- you just need to be aware of, you

             know, several things.  Do you have the technical expertise

             to fix it if it's broken?  If it's outdated, how outdated

             is it?  If it's missing parts, are those parts vital?  And

             is this equipment -- even though it's in great condition,

             is it really suitable for your organization's needs?  Next

             slide -- so be careful what you ask for.

                     Here's a tip.  So if an individual or a corporation

             approaches you or your organization about donations,

             knowing how to gracefully decline can definitely save you

             time and the energy and expense of having to recycle

             something that you definitely don't want.

                     I remember I learned this the hard way when

             somebody did come in, and they had a vehicle.  It sounded

             great when they were talking to me.  I was thinking, this

             would be great.  It was an accessible van, and we had these

             big ideas that we could use this van to carry computers

             around the state, and it came in.  And no joke.  It was on

             its last leg.  And it sat there forever.  So it was very

             frustrating.  And so you just want to be careful what you

             ask for and also be very, very respectful and graceful in

             the way that you decline some of these things because the

             person who actually donated the van -- and we did accept

             it, and we were able to sell it for, like -- I think it was

             about $200 -- actually did end up, a couple years later,

             donating about $5,000 to the project.  And I think

             gracefully declining is probably what kind of kept that

             relationship solid.

                     This is also one of those folks that was a

             connector, and they were able to get out there and get --

             you know, they were talking all the time about our project

             and how great our project was and how it's helping people.

             And so just knowing how to balance those things -- it's

             very important.  Next slide.

                     So I also wanted to give you some tips for

             accepting and refusing donated equipment.  And this is not

             necessarily -- some of the examples are going to be based

             on wheelchairs.  Some are going to be based on hospital

             beds.  Some are going to be based on computers.  You can

             substitute a lot of different types of equipment for the

             tips that I'm going to share here.  And I actually stole

             these and modified them from Jim Lynch, who has done a

             great job within the PC reuse community.  He's done a great

             job with that.

 

                                    Tip Number 1

 

                     So the first tip is, basically, if you're unsure of

             a piece of donated equipment -- if you're not sure that

             it's going to be useful to your organization, refer donors

             to a refurbisher or recycler.  There's a really cool

             document out there that we're going to put on the Web site

             called "Do the PC Thing."  And it's not necessarily just

             about PCs, but it's -- so it's kind of a twist on that "PC"

             for "personal computer" or "politically correct," but it

             actually gives some good tips and kind of raises awareness

             for donors as they come in of why you cannot take

             everything and why not everything is a great thing to

             donate because it can really slow down or totally put you

             out of business.  And so we'll make sure that you can get

             that document.

                     Tech Soup has a list of recyclers.  And that's a

             Web site -- Tech Soup.  I would encourage you to go visit

             that.  They also -- those recyclers are not necessarily

             just for e-waste, not just for computers or PDAs or cell

             phones, but you can actually use some of these recyclers

             for other things that you may have.  And we also are

             compiling a list of recyclers.  I've been working on that

             for the last few weeks.  So we will have that on our Web

             site, so you will have access to a wide range of folks that

             do recyclers and end-of-life -- address end-of-useful-life

             issues.  Next slide.

 

                                    Tip Number 2

 

                     The next slide is actually -- the second tip is,

             basically, if you need low-cost equipment, seek donations

             from a refurbisher.  Some of the best donations that we

             have gotten have actually been from other folks who are

             doing recycling and refurbishing and all of that.  We've

             gotten PDAs from a group called Collective Good, and they

             actually are an end-of-life or recycler for cell phones and

             PDAs and all kinds of small electronics.  And they've been

             one of our best folks for getting that kind of equipment.

             We've also gotten computers from recyclers that are

             receiving and refurbishers that are -- all their business

             is about is breaking it down.  And they were, like, "Gosh,

             it would be a shame to break this down when it really has

             some useful life to it."  So they'll get in touch with us.

             So that's a helpful group to get in touch with.

                     I know when I was up in Delaware, there's a group

             that's actually doing some of that breaking down of

             computers, and they were saying there's some good life left

             in some of these computers.  So I'm excited to see what

             Delaware and what Beth does with the collaboration up there

             because that could be a good place to get some equipment.

                     Another way to get some equipment and find

             donations is through online classified ads like Craig's

             List and Freecycle, and there's a whole bunch of ones out

             there that are very interesting -- or a local newspaper.

             And you have to be careful, though, because you could end

             up with a lot of stuff that's unusable, and that's where

             you get into that very detailed kind of description from

             the get-go of what it is exactly you're looking for, that

             you are looking for working equipment.  And you are looking

             for this year and newer or what have you.  And if you want

             to walk through any of that stuff, we'd be happy to walk

             through that with you.  So rather than soliciting and

             accepting donations from individuals and businesses,

             sometimes just contacting that refurbisher can be an easier

             thing.

                     So there are lots of resources out there that can

             help you find discounted and refurbished equipment.

             Several of those are listed on the next slide, and those

             include the National Cristina Foundation.  I'm not sure how

             many of you are a member of the National Cristina

             Foundation.  They're doing a lot of revamping of their

             services.

                     I spoke with Yvette Marrin who's the executive

             director just the other day.  And I have found that that

             has been a very valuable resource on a lot of levels for

             getting good equipment and getting connected with other

             people who are doing what we're doing.  They actually

             contacted us about two weeks ago because they had received,

             I think it was, like, two or three hundred of the tablet

             PCs.  And they didn't really know what to do with them.

             And so they actually sent some of them down to ReBoot, and

             ReBoot's been working on it, trying to get software and all

             of that and get these up and running.  And that's actually

             a very cool technology.  And so we've talked to some of our

             speech therapists around town to see if they could use some

             of this equipment.  And so it's pretty cool.

                     But the thing that's so powerful about the National

             Cristina Foundation is that we know that they're reputable,

             and we know that we can trust the equipment, usually, that

             they are connecting us with.

                     And then there are some other ones, just like I

             said -- Tech Soup's list of refurbishers and also the

             recycled-computers initiative.  Dell's Tech Foundation

             actually has a long list of very useful recyclers and folks

             that you want to get connected with.  So that would be

             good.  Next slide.

                                    Tip Number 3

 

                     The next tip is Tip Number 3:  If you accept a

             donation, be sure to get the parts and the manuals.  I have

             run into this, and I have seen it over and over again when

             it comes to working with wheelchairs or hospital beds.  I

             remember trying to figure out a hospital bed.  That can be

             a very tricky, tricky piece of equipment if you don't know

             what you're doing.  And so just having that user manual

             would have been so helpful.  And thankfully, I was able to

             download it, and we are, on our Web site, actually putting

             together a place where you can get user manuals.  That was

             one of the things y'all had requested, and we are

             definitely doing that.  But trying to get all the parts --

             I think a lot of times people forget.  They'll forget that

             one part or that one wheel or the one, you know -- one

             little piece that could be the piece that actually makes

             the biggest difference.  And that piece could be the piece

             that actually either makes that something useful for

             somebody in your community or something that you're going

             to have to send on to the end-of-life recycler.

                     So you also, in the area of talking about

             computers, want to minimize your exposure to liability by

             keeping an inventory of computer software documentation

             licenses that you receive because you could actually -- if

             you have the original disks -- you can use some of those

             disks to load software legally.

                     So, for example, we've had folks that have donated

             JAWS to us, and they didn't give us all the documentation,

             and they didn't give us the certificates of authenticity.

             And they're, like, "Oh, you can use this because I don't

             know where all that is."  And the truth is, we weren't able

             to use it, and then we've had other folks that have brought

             in JAWS, and we've said, "Oh, we need this," and they're,

             like, "Oh, okay."  And they get it and mail it to us, and

             then we're able to use it.  So staying legal is extremely

             important, not just for the big companies when you're

             thinking about Microsoft and Freedom Scientific but for a

             lot of the smaller companies too.

                     There seems to be a bigger crackdown on this and

             making sure that folks are staying legal, and I'm glad to

             see that happen.  So we do want to make sure that folks

             bring in all the parts and the manuals, and I would just

             stress that with folks.

 

                                   Tip Number 4

 

                     Tip Number 4 is another piece of just remembering

             all the accessories when it comes to the keyboard, monitor,

             mice, printer, modem, any other accessories that folks may

             need.  A lot of times cables -- people forget cables.  I

             can't tell you how many times people have brought in pieces

             of equipment.  They'll bring in a little PDA, and they'll

             forget to bring the charger cord, and so you end up only

             having the battery life that's on this PDA.  And that's

             kind of frustrating because, once again, it goes from a

             very useful piece of equipment to something that may not be

             able to be used.  So I would encourage you to go ahead and

             encourage folks to bring all the accessories, especially

             when you're talking about -- if you're dealing with any

             type of electronic devices.

                     Same thing with our AAC devices that people have

             been bringing in.  We want to make sure that we get all the

             accessories with that also because some of those cords are

             a little bit more difficult to find.  You can't just jog on

             down to the Radio Shack and find it.  And once again, it

             makes it -- it takes it from that realm of usable to not

             usable.

 

                                    Tip Number 5

 

                     Tip Number 5 is deleting personal information from

             all equipment, including PCs and PDAs.  But I would stretch

             this a little bit further because I have found that

             sometimes people put identifying information on

             wheelchairs, or they'll put it on the back of an AAC

             device.  They'll put it on all kinds of equipment that you

             wouldn't really expect.  Or, once again, in those manuals

             that you're receiving -- sometimes people will actually

             leave information in there that you really don't want to

             pass on to the next person.  So you want to make sure that

             folks have -- if they have not taken that information

             out -- that you just look it over one more time to make

             sure that you're not passing on personal information.

                     This gets into all kinds of things that Jessica

             Brodey has done a great job of raising our awareness about

             when it comes to personal -- HIPAA and being respectful of

             privacy and all of that.

                     For PCs there's some really cool software out there

             that some of it is actually free.  Kill Disk or Nuke are

             actually two that are free, and we actually have those --

             we have links to those on our Web site.  And once again,

             Tech Soup has great free downloads for security and privacy

             software.  And that's good.

                     I've also been able to find software that can wipe

             a PDA, and there are also little tricks to doing that by

             just resetting the PDA and all of that.  So we'll have more

             information on our Web site about how to do that.  We are

             getting more and more folks that are reusing PDAs and

             wanting to know more about how to wipe the memory and all

             of that.  So we'll get some more information on the Web

             site for that.

 

                                    Tip Number 6

 

                     Our next tip is actually making sure -- and this is

             something we've talked a lot about -- is making sure that

             we dispose of the equipment, our own equipment that's

             obsolete in a responsible way.  And once again, we've got a

             listing here of folks that actually go to a bigger list --

             the National Safety Council's Electronic Equipment

             Recyclers -- very, very cool, very helpful Web site.

                     Also Electronic Industries Alliance has some great

             connections that are national, and so you can go to that

             Web site and get some more information.  And even though

             most of these deal with electronics, they also have

             connections, as I said before, to ways of getting rid of

             your plastics and your aluminums and all the other types of

             materials that can get you connected with some of those

             other recyclers.

                     And I wanted to also let you know, Jeremy and I

             were in Minnesota last week, and we were there for a

             one-day conference that they did that was outstanding.

             They had almost a hundred people, maybe over a hundred

             people that were there.  And one of the groups that was

             there was talking about their computer-reuse program.  And

             they are doing such a good job of recycling the end

             products that they're not using anymore, that they are

             actually making about a quarter of their budget from that

             activity.  And I just thought that was outstanding.  So

             they're sending me more information about how to do that.

             And we will definitely share that with you.

                     The next slide actually talks more about some of

             those partnerships that we've talked about a little bit in

             the past, and we're going to continue talking about these.

             So I want to just ask:  Are y'all working with public

             schools and with private schools when it comes to getting

             more, locating equipment?  I know just having those

             connections and having those doors open, you know, where

             folks can donate has made a big difference because a lot of

             times those public schools, they'll go ahead and write off

             the equipment.  And rather than sending it to state surplus

             or to their county surplus or their city surplus, they'll

             go ahead and just bring over a truckload of the AT

             equipment.  And that's wonderful.  That's very nice that

             they're doing that.  And we're seeing an increase in that.

                     Private schools often have a different way of

             getting rid of equipment, and a lot of times I think we

             forget that some of these private schools do have equipment

             that we can use.

                     Funeral homes -- that's one that a lot of times

             people overlook in their community.  But almost every state

             has a group of funeral home directors or what have you, and

             you can actually talk with that group, that association and

             get information out to them so that they can pass that on

             to folks that they're serving.  And so that's another way

             of raising awareness.  And actually, we've seen, in some

             communities, where the funeral home has actually taken this

             on as an initiative where folks can drop off that

             equipment, or they'll even pick up the equipment, which I

             think is really cool.

                     We actually have a funeral home here that's pretty

             big, and they started doing that and trying to get that

             equipment back into the hands of other reusers, you know,

             groups that do reutilization.  And that's some place that I

             hadn't really thought about, but sure enough, it's making a

             difference.

                     Hospice is another one.  I have been so impressed

             with the way that hospice does do a lot of reutilization.

             And I've talked to some of the folks.  I didn't realize

             that they were doing as much as they are.  But they're also

             looking for organizations to connect with because they

             don't have storage space, and they don't have the expertise

             to claim this equipment.  Sometimes when folks die -- and

             I'm sure y'all know this -- some people want that

             equipment, and they just want it to stay in their home.

             They're just not ready to let go of it.

                     There was a person I was working with who had --

             her son passed, and he was an AAC user, and she just liked

             having his AAC device around.  And when she was ready to

             let go of it and pass it on, she took great care and

             brought it over.  We talked a lot about that and knew the

             value of that and found a really good home for this device.

                     There are other folks that have actually said, "I

             cannot look at this one more day," and they'll actually,

             you know, in the dead of night, drop off equipment just

             because, you know, they just can't have it in their space

             anymore.  So hospice and funeral homes, good contacts for

             locating equipment.

                     Hospitals are another one.  And we're finding that

             actually a lot of hospitals are getting some really

             high-tech equipment.  I'm going to talk in a little bit

             more detail about that in just a minute, but that's another

             one that we want to make sure is on our list that you're

             connecting with.

                     Tourist attractions -- I was actually in Texas, and

             I was meeting with the Project MEND folks who are actually

             really progressive in the way that they're thinking, and

             they were, like, "We've got Sea World here, and we've got

             Six Flags."  I think it's Fiesta Texas or something, and

             they're actually going to contact them.  I know that some

             other groups have actually worked well with Disney and, you

             know, Six Flags and other tourist attractions because often

             these places -- they do have equipment.  They have

             scooters, and the battery will go dead.  And sometimes they

             want to just get rid of the scooter and get a new scooter

             because they have some more money, or they want something

             that looks a little nicer or a newer model.  So sometimes

             they're donating.  And same thing with their wheelchairs,

             manual wheelchairs and then also just their equipment in

             general.

                     There's a tourist attraction that actually

             contacted me not long ago with a bar-code system that they

             were using, and they wanted to find out who they could get

             that to, so I was able to connect them up with some folks.

                     Airports -- another place that goes through a lot

             of equipment and often has, you know, some high-tech

             equipment.  Once again, you want to think about those

             earlier slides that I was telling you about.  If somebody

             says, "Hey, we've got this great plane we can give you,"

             I'm not so sure -- yes, it may be nice to have a plane,

             especially if you're in some of these big states.  But I'm

             not so sure that that's what you need for your

             organization.  But there's definitely other equipment that

             we can use from airports.

                     Some other groups that we definitely want to make

             sure that we're working with are DME vendors.  Often when

             folks are getting new DME, durable medical equipment, they

             need to have a place to get rid of their older equipment

             because they absolutely do not have any space at all for

             the new equipment.  And so we see programs that are

             actually connecting with DME vendors, and the DME vendor

             will pick up the old equipment when they drop off the new

             equipment and transport it back to their location.  And

             that's very cool.

                     When we were in Minnesota last week, I actually

             talked to a group that's a DME vendor, and they actually

             say that they get about 25 to 30 wheelchairs that are

             really nice that are being reused a month, and these are

             all-power wheelchairs because folks are upgrading.  And

             that's pretty cool.  And so figuring out a way to work with

             our DME vendors can be really valuable.

                     Donation centers -- and I'm talking in particular

             about Salvation Armies and Goodwills and all of those -- a

             lot of times they're getting this equipment because they

             have all these drop-off locations, but they don't really

             know what to do with it.  So going over, educating them

             about, "If you see these devices --" and actually giving

             pictures may be helpful.  We've done that before here --

             showing them pictures and saying, "If you see this device,

             this device, this device, this device, please keep this for

             us and call us when you get these."  And sure enough,

             they're doing that.

                     Stores like electronic stores or computer stores

             are also very good because a lot of times when people are

             buying new equipment, they are not so sure what to do with

             their old equipment.  So being there either at the point of

             sale -- we did a little drive one time where we actually

             had -- or a little campaign where we had all the computer

             stores within a certain radius that actually every time

             somebody bought a new computer, they would put a little

             postcard in the bag that would say "Donate your old

             computer to ReBoot."  And so we were able to get some

             donations that way, and then that was really good.

                     And also getting connected with Medicaid,

             Vocational Rehabilitation, raising awareness in those

             arenas -- Veterans' Administration -- very helpful.  We're

             going to talk a little bit more about that towards the end

             of the slide.  And we do have a task force, if you

             remember, one of our task forces working with third-party

             payers, and so this is one of those areas that we're hoping

             to get more information about.  How can we work closer with

             them nationally, locally?  How can you work closer with

             these groups so that we can locate equipment in a bigger

             way?  Kansas, as you know, has done an outstanding job when

             it comes to their model with Medicaid.

                     Churches and synagogues -- another area you might

             want to get connected with.  Strategic partnerships with

             them can be really valuable, and once again, there's lots

             of associations -- the Presbyterian Church Association, the

             Catholic Church Association.  Here in Atlanta we have

             several synagogues that are very connected, and so you can

             go and talk to them either when maybe their business

             administrators are meeting or when some of their ministers

             are meeting, when their missionaries are meeting, and just

             tell them about your initiative.  And you'd be surprised

             how much you can get, as far as support and awareness, just

             by talking with them.

                     The area agencies on aging -- their care-services

             folks have been really valuable too.  I've seen them

             throughout the country where they are raising awareness,

             and they actually are very good contacts for locating

             equipment because a lot of times they know that so and so

             has passed, and you know, they don't know what to do with

             this equipment.  Or sometimes people will actually bring

             the equipment to them.

                     And then other service organizations -- and I'm

             going to talk in a little bit more detail about them in

             just a second.  So our next slide.  And I'm going to pause

             here and see if y'all have any questions about that.  Okay.

             We'll move forward.

                     So partners in your community -- I said I was going

             to talk a little bit more about the hospitals.  The folks

             that I usually connect with and that I've encouraged other

             folks to connect with are usually operations-manager-type

             folks.  It's not necessarily the head of the hospital.  You

             can -- especially if you have relatives that are in charge

             of the hospital -- that's a good thing.  Sometimes it could

             be, you know, nurses or doctors or other folks that are

             working there.  But a lot of times the operations managers

             are the ones that really do know, kind of, where the

             equipment is, what kind of condition it's in, how much

             equipment they really have.  And they're often motivated to

             get that equipment out and get it out of that basement or

             get it out of that closet or what have you.  So those are

             the folks that you want to get in touch with.

                     Some of the larger law firms in your community --

             if you talk to their computer-system managers or their IT

             directors or what have you, a lot of times they have

             surplus equipment because they're upgrading at a more rapid

             rate than a lot of other folks.  I'm also finding that a

             lot of these law firms have PDAs.  They've got some of the

             higher-end technologies that are really cool and really

             helpful.  And so you can get in touch with them.  And

             that's a good contact.

                     Other ones that you might want to get in touch with

             would be local insurance firms.  We have several of those

             in the Atlanta area, and I've also known in other states

             where, you know, the insurance firms have been quick to

             upgrade their equipment.  And so you can actually get the

             equipment from them, and then we've actually seen where

             some of these folks -- the insurance companies will put

             their -- put an advertisement or something like that on the

             Web site.  So if they're actually providing insurance to

             folks, that lets people know about this resource in their

             own community.  And also, some of the insurance companies

             have also given -- some of them have foundations, and they

             like to work locally, and so they will actually give a

             donation -- which is nice -- of money.

                     Checking with your surplus department in the state,

             city, county that you live in can actually be another way

             to get some really good equipment, and you just want to

             make sure that you're following those surplus guides very

             appropriately.  I've run into folks throughout the country,

             actually, that have had some problems getting into their

             surplus and then other folks that have had no problem at

             all.  But a lot of times we forget that it's not just

             federal surplus or state surplus, but that sometimes

             there's city, and sometimes there's county surplus and

             making sure that we're covering all of those -- all of

             those bases.

                     The next slide -- actually, one more slide.  The

             next slide talks more about that surplus that I was talking

             about and also trying to get connected with folks who are

             making your e-waste policies and who are trying to find the

             resources.

                     I know in Georgia our Department of Natural

             Resources -- that's the group that actually has put

             together a Web site, and they've put together a brochure,

             and they're updating this all the time.  And when I asked

             our contact here, "How does this work in other states?" he

             said, "It's actually popping up all over where that's the

             department."  It may be called something different in your

             state, but that's the department that actually is getting,

             you know, this information out to folks.  And so trying to,

             you know, make sure that you're on their list or connected

             with them can be very, very helpful.

                     And then also, reaching out to some of the other

             folks that are making some of these big decisions and

             sitting, you know, around in the recycling trade -- at the

             recycling-trade-organization meetings and what have you to

             gather information, but also becoming part of the

             conversation.

                     I've talked about this experience, you know,

             several times.  At Georgia Tech they actually have pulled

             together a task force where they're looking at disposal of

             equipment, and it's not just electronics.  It's not just

             e-waste.  But it's equipment in general.  And being a part

             of that conversation has actually raised their awareness as

             well as our awareness.  And so you want to make sure that

             you're part of the conversation as policies are being

             developed and all of that.  And so I'm going to talk a

             little bit more about that in just a minute.

                     The next slide, actually, is a -- it's a picture.

             It's actually a shot from a Web site that is the GSA, the

             U.S. General Services Administration's Web site.  And I

             don't know how many of y'all have actually visited this

             site.  I visit it pretty often just -- well, for many

             reasons.  But it is interesting what you'll find up there.

             And today -- well, yesterday they actually had all these

             travel trailers and mobile homes.  I don't know that any of

             our programs need the travel trailers or mobile homes, but

             they do have those up and property of FEMA.  And what I've

             actually found is that different groups will post or

             feature different pieces of equipment that they've got.  So

             I have found things -- all kinds of things up there on this

             Web site and have been able to get some of this equipment,

             which is good, and it's just a matter of getting connected

             with folks.

                     NASA, actually, was upgrading a lot of their

             systems.  They were actually moving away from a certain PDA

             to another PDA, so they had several hundred PDAs that they

             were going to get rid of.  And so that was good, and I

             actually pointed some folks that direction.

                     There's often computers that are up here from

             different government agencies.  I've also found things like

             braille printers or other types of equipment like that that

             have made their way through to the federal surplus, and now

             they're trying to move them.  And so it's good to visit

             this every now and then and also see if there's a federal

             surplus site in your state.  I know there's a lot of these

             around the country.  We have one here, and I know there's

             several around the country.  So you want to make sure that

             you're in touch with these folks.

                     Another thing when we're talking about kind of

             getting out there, getting your information out there is

             just simple things like creating a flyer.  It's amazing how

             just creating a simple flyer that you can put everywhere

             can really make a big difference, so -- or a postcard.  You

             can get these, you know, flyers or postcards pretty cheap.

             And just, you know, state what it is you're looking for --

             going back to the earlier sites that I was talking about --

             state what you're looking for and make sure that they have

             all the information -- a map to your site, an accurate

             phone number, if you are giving tax deductions, that

             information and all -- and also, kind of, your wish list

             because you never know what people have.  And then,

             whenever I go out and talk to folks or whenever other folks

             go out and talk, we make sure that we actually get these

             flyers out.  And you can give these flyers out to all the

             groups that we just talked about -- the schools -- private,

             public schools, to VR counselors, to any number of folks.

                     But you can also give them out to service

             organizations like your Lyon's Club, Toastmasters.  Those

             are folks that like to talk.  So get the information out to

             them.  Chambers of commerce have actually been very good at

             getting this information out.  And sometimes whenever folks

             are new to town or a new business joins, they'll give them

             a whole packet of information, and in there could be your

             flyer.

                     Doctor's offices has been another really good one

             that we have found that actually is very helpful.  Because

             if you think about it, a lot of times people are sitting

             and waiting in doctor's offices and thinking about things,

             and you know, here you could give them something to think

             about, a way to help out your organization.  And a lot of

             doctor's offices really seem to be open to letting you put

             your information out there, and so that's nice.

                     So other places that people gather in your

             community -- that's where you kind of want to have these

             flyers or postcards.  And a lot of times we just put them

             out and then, you know, let folks pick them up as they

             wish.

                     There's low-cost and even free postcards online at

             Vista Print.  I don't know how many of you have visited

             that, but I'd encourage you to visit this Web site because

             you can get some really nice, professional-looking

             postcards either at very low cost or for free.  So check it

             out.

                     The next slide actually talks about some places

             that you can place ads and success stories and things like

             that.  I was surprised -- I was flipping through the paper

             online actually and saw in the obituary section where

             somebody had actually placed an ad about reusing their

             equipment and that you can donate the equipment at this

             location and all of that.  I'm trying to get some

             information as to, was the ad free or what have you?  But I

             thought it was a very interesting place to put this ad, and

             I was just going to try and get some information from them

             as far as what was their response?  And I thought, you

             know, that's something I hadn't really thought about, but

             it might be a good location.

                     Hospital newsletters -- once again, if your name is

             associated with a certain hospital that's really reputable

             and has a great reputation in your community and they could

             do a little success story, why not have your information in

             there?  Because a lot of times people are reading these

             newsletters because, once again, folks are sitting there,

             don't really have a bunch to do sometimes at the hospital,

             and they could learn more about you.  What could they do

             that would be better than that?

                     DME vendor newsletters -- often they're looking for

             some stories and things, and so we've actually found some

             DME vendors that are very happy to have you place an ad and

             talk about a success story, especially if it's something

             where the vendor has gotten a certain piece of equipment,

             and then you helped them with another piece of equipment,

             and you were able to really help the person in a joint way.

             And so that's where I've seen some of those success stories

             coming into play.

                     The next slide actually talks about joining

             national events.  And one of those events that you could

             get involved with -- and this is just one of many that's

             kind of like a national effort -- is Earth 911.  It's

             actually got a Web site, earth911.org, and they have a

             toll-free recycling hotline that is -- I think it's

             1-800-CLEAN-UP.  I'm pretty sure that's what that says.

             And it provides local recycling locations for e-waste but

             also other types of information.  And they -- when I had

             talked with them about, you know, does it have to

             necessarily be end-of-life recycling and we talked a little

             bit about the definitions and all of that, they were open

             to having a conversation about, you know, defining that a

             little further so that we could be more active in their

             effort because they've actually had a lot of success.  They

             had a lot of success during Earth Day.

                     And I know Kansas participated in an Earth Day

             event, and some other folks did, too, and have done that in

             the past.  So it would be nice to be part of a national

             effort and get some recognition for that.

                     This one is interesting in that you can enter your

             ZIP Code, and you can get a comprehensive list of items and

             locations and all of that.  So I'm not saying that we

             necessarily have to join this group, but just be more aware

             of the national effort that's going on.

                     The next slide actually is a Web site.  I captured

             a Web page here, and it's actually from our Iowa partners.

             Jane Gay worked together with Easter Seals in Iowa, and

             they did an equipment drive.  And this was a

             durable-medical-equipment drive or medical-equipment-drive

             donation day.  It actually was in April, April 29th, and

             this is a press release that they did.  And so just trying

             to raise awareness on many levels and trying to attract

             many different folks can be a really good thing.  And it

             was nice to see their -- their press release pop up.

                     It was one of the first things that actually popped

             up.  If you typed in "medical equipment drive," it's, like,

             one of the first sites that pops up, and so you could,

             obviously, go there and get some information as to how they

             framed their story.  And we're collecting these, too, so

             that can give y'all some resources as to how to write a

             press release that, maybe, would raise some awareness, what

             type of language to use.  Maybe some folks would be more

             connected with medical equipment, as opposed to, you know,

             some other type of language that we might want to use.  So

             I thought it was an interesting way that they actually did

             this.  And I was going to contact Jane and find out how

             that drive actually went.

                     We've heard of other folks doing equipment drives

             that have been very successful.  For example, in Minnesota

             there's a computer project that did an equipment drive.

             They had 700 people donate, and they actually raised

             $31,000, and that was $31,000 that they raised in one day

             through their equipment drive.  They actually had folks

             donate when they were giving their computer just to cover

             some of the cost.  And I thought that was very interesting

             because I think that actually when I did the math, it's

             like $45 a computer or something like that, which is kind

             of what's going on at a national average of, if you're

             going to donate a computer, that's often what it ends up

             costing.  But it's very interesting that they were able to

             raise that kind of money.

                     And some other folks are doing equipment drives

             just on a regular basis, and sometimes they start out very

             slow, and then they start to grow.  I know Project MEND,

             when I was meeting with them a couple of weeks ago, they

             had done an equipment drive -- their first one -- and they

             are hoping to build that up.  And sometimes it's just a

             matter of having it as an annual event, having it as

             something people are aware is going to happen.  And it's

             going to happen on this day, or it's going to happen in

             this month, and that's what happens.

                     The one in Minnesota has actually been going on for

             a long time, and they said they've been doing it for almost

             five years.  And I was very impressed by that.  I thought

             $31,000 in one day, 700 donations -- that's pretty good.

                     So the other thing when it comes to equipment

             drives that, you know, folks want to pay attention to is

             actually connecting with the bigger groups or other groups.

             And the next slide actually talks a little bit about that.

             Goodwill did a donation day at the zoo, and this was

             actually in Pittsburgh, and it was the Pittsburgh Zoo.  So

             they were very smart.  They did it at a place where people

             were gathering.  This happened in 2007.  And we can share

             this with you too.  This is just their information about

             what happened, when they did it.  They did it to celebrate

             Earth Day.  And it seemed like it was very successful from

             what I read.

                     We've done some computer drives, donation drives,

             and we've usually done that in collaboration with other

             groups.  So for example, when Dell came around, they did a

             big tour in 2003 -- and I don't know if many of you were

             aware of that -- but they received nationally -- I think

             they hit 13 cities -- and they received over 200,000 tons

             of equipment.  It was crazy how much equipment.

                     In Georgia we collected, on the day that they came,

             74 tons of equipment, so that was a lot of equipment.  In

             exchange, we actually got a lot of really good press, plus

             we got some really cool volunteers to help us out.  We did

             it over at the Georgia Tech Center.  That's actually their

             coliseum, and it's right off the expressway.  CNN came out

             and covered this event.  A lot of local media came out and

             covered it.  And it really raised a lot of awareness about

             what we're trying to do.  It was a drive-through where

             folks literally just drove through.  They didn't get out of

             their car.  They picked up information, as far as their tax

             information, at the very beginning.  Then they went to the

             next station where we emptied out their car, and then they

             drove on, and they got a nice little goody bag at the very

             end, and then off they went.  So it literally took them no

             time at all to drive through, and it was an amazing event.

             And so I actually have some information about how we did

             that and would be happy to share that with you.

                     I've asked Dell if they're going to do this again

             because it would be cool to be able to do that kind of

             event again, but you know, they're still not sure if that's

             the direction they're headed.  So anyway, that's one way to

             do it.  So I could see a very cool event like that

             happening in some other cities and making sure that it's

             just a very smooth thing and a different way of doing it.

                     So when we did it over at Georgia Tech, one of the

             nice things was, as I said, it was right off the

             expressway.  But also, we had a lot of folks that were

             willing to volunteer because they were college students and

             any number of other folks that just, you know, wanted to

             come and help out.  We actually had some donors get out of

             their car, and they came and helped out, and that was very

             nice.  And we fed everybody, so that was good.

                     The next slide actually talks a little bit about --

             it doesn't really -- it's just showing you Craig's List,

             and it goes back to that talk that I was having just a

             little bit ago, earlier in this presentation, about

             checking out what's going on with Craig's List in your

             community and what's going on with E-bay.  What's listed?

             And is there a way for you to raise awareness for folks who

             are listing equipment, that they could actually donate it

             to you?  This is the Craig's List Atlanta, and it's kind of

             hard to see.  It's not the most friendly site, as far as,

             it's hard for my screen reader to read it.  But I have

             visited it often, and I've actually visited for other

             states.

                     And so if you actually typed in, you know, whatever

             it is you're looking for -- and on the next page I actually

             will show you that I actually typed in "wheelchair," and

             that's all I typed in.  And then up popped 88 different

             pieces of equipment that were connected to wheelchair,

             which is interesting.  And I was surprised that there was

             that much equipment, and it was all pretty much posted

             within the last couple of weeks.  So that was very

             interesting.

                     The thing about this is, when I started typing in

             other things -- "hospital bed" or typed in "computer" or

             typed in certain type of PDAs, there's all kinds of

             equipment.  And it's a lot of local equipment.  And so

             trying to see if there's some way to connect with these

             folks to let them know, "Hey, if you want to donate, you

             can" or just trying to raise their awareness could be a

             helpful thing.

                     The next slide -- actually, I just showed that I

             typed in "wheelchair" and went to Boise, Idaho, just to see

             what's going on there because I know we've got folks from

             Idaho involved with -- that's a grantee, and there were 22

             items, once again, all listed pretty much within July.  So

             I thought that was very interesting -- 88 in Atlanta and 22

             in Boise.

                     The next slide actually shows some of the pictures

             that some folks put up on Craig's List and just shows some

             of the detail there and a way that you can actually contact

             folks.  This one -- actually, this wheelchair looks kind of

             broken to me, but it says it's in super condition and that

             it's for $65.  So I thought that was very interesting.

                     So anyway, but the thing is, is you can get a lot

             of information from these folks and just kind of get a feel

             for what's going on in your own community.

                     The next slide, actually, is another site that's

             out there that I'm not sure that y'all have interacted with

             or if you have interacted with, what your experience has

             been would be helpful to know.  And this is actually

             MedMatrix.  This is a site that connects folks with any

             number of medical-related equipment.  You can get used

             equipment up here.  I was able to find -- I've been able to

             find batteries and wheels and all different types of little

             equipment here and there pretty reasonable, different types

             of seating cushions and backs to wheelchairs.  So it's been

             a useful site and pretty reliable connecting with some

             folks that you probably, you know, could get some parts

             from at least.

                     And they have a wide range of equipment.  Some of

             the stuff up there that's popped up is related to

             veterinary medicine and all of that, so you just need to

             make sure that your search is very accurate and that the

             information you're putting in is actually what you're

             looking for.

                     So the next thing that I wanted to talk to y'all

             about is if you've talked to your representatives about --

             and I'm talking about your state representatives or your

             government representatives, any number of groups -- about

             helping with this effort to locate equipment.  And I know

             that in some states there have been initiatives.  There's

             been bills that have been brought up.  There's been a

             couple that have been passed where folks are saying, you

             know, we need a hotline.  We need a sticker that goes on

             equipment.  We need a way for folks to get more connected

             with how they can get rid of equipment that they're not

             using anymore and ways to do that.

                     And so the next slide actually shows in 1997 in

             Texas there was a House bill that came up, and basically,

             this one was focused on trying to get a sticker put on

             equipment that would direct folks how to get rid of their

             equipment in a very environmentally friendly way and in a

             way that would actually help folks be able to reuse that.

             So it talks a little bit here about the background and the

             purpose.  It says that there were advocacy groups involved.

                     And the next slide talks about what they -- how

             they actually were developing this.  So it talks about, you

             know, that they were trying to instruct folks on the

             development of and facilitation of the reuse of durable

             medical equipment, and they were trying to provide

             information about licensing and how to do this in

             appropriate ways.  It also talks about who they were

             actually working with.  So they were talking about

             nonprofit organizations and all of that.  And specifically,

             they were looking at durable medical equipment and

             assistive technology owned by the state of Texas.

                     The next slide gives some more information about

             what it is they actually were wanting from this bill, and

             so they were talking specifically that they want to get a

             toll-free number established that directs people to the

             commission, that it would -- so that they could then refer

             folks to appropriately licensed nonprofits in their area.

             It also instructs the commission to design a sticker

             listing a toll-free number for medical equipment, which I

             thought was very interesting.  And it also required all

             vendors to place the sticker on equipment that's sold to

             individuals.  So I thought this was a very interesting

             approach.

                     It also helped me understand, when I was talking

             with the Project MEND folks, a little bit more about why

             there are so many regulations around the use of equipment,

             especially the reuse of equipment, so how to sterilize and

             how to clean all the stuff, how to separate it out, how to

             store it appropriately.  It was very, very interesting.

                     Texas, by far, in my research and other folks'

             research, has the most regulations when it comes to this

             reuse activity, and so I thought this was very interesting

             because it kind of gave a little more to that story.

                     So the next slide is actually a question that I'm

             just tossing out to you, as you're working on your

             sustainability plans, and we can't really have a

             conversation about our projects without talking about

             locating equipment.  And we can't really talk about

             locating equipment without thinking about a lot of those

             other things that we just talked about.  But all of this

             should be a part of your sustainability plan in some way

             when you're doing your self-assessment and looking at your

             vision.  You know, locating equipment and your strategy for

             that should play a part in your sustainability.

                     Also, prioritizing your existing strategies and

             activities -- if you're not doing any activities around

             locating equipment, then we could definitely talk about

             that and talk about how that could help you with making

             sure that you are growing.  It's definitely a public

             awareness.  Just having a drive can be a public-awareness

             activity.  But it goes back to that thing of "working

             smarter, not harder."  And then locating equipment could

             also be a part of just your model in general.

                     So I'd like to open this up.  I hope that you found

             some of this information helpful.  I really enjoy talking

             about these types of things because I think that often it's

             just planting seeds, and then we find out what happens down

             the road.  But I'd like to hear from some of y'all any

             questions or comments that you have.

                     And the next slide actually is peer-to-peer

             sharing, so I would like to learn from you, the experts.

             So I'm going to open this up for you to talk, so take it

             away.  And actually, it would be helpful if somebody else

             could read the questions if y'all have some questions that

             are popping up in the text box.  And I think that Caroline

             said something about that you can enter your information in

             the text box.

                     I see that the folks from Project MEND are on.

             Hello and also welcome, Beth.  Nice to have you on board.

             So, Project MEND, I was wondering specifically about, have

             y'all seen any positive impact from the House bill?

                     And I also see, Nell, you're on board, and you've

             been doing this for a long time.  Are there any advice, any

             words of wisdom that you have because I know you've had

             conversations with folks about trying to locate equipment?

                     And, Lee Learson, I know you've been in the

             business for a long, long time.  So any advice that you

             have to share would be welcome too.

                     NELL BAILEY:  I'm not sure if you can hear me, but

             thanks, and hello everybody.  Carolyn, I think you've

             covered it all.  I'm not sure how many -- last week NATTAP had

             sponsored a conference call on populating exchange sites,

             and of course, as you all know, exchange is one of the

             reuse activities that many of the AT programs are involved

             in.  And so we're just trying to figure out ways and

             strategies in which the programs could populate or get

             devices into their exchange system.  So they had a lot of

             good ideas in terms of, you know, reaching out to various

             agencies, organizations, and other entities using postcards

             and different -- other kinds of materials.  Carolyn, you

             mentioned press releases and things like that.  So many of

             the same strategies that you talked about -- they also

             brought up on the teleconference call last week.

                     CAROLYN PHILLIPS:  Thank you, Nell.  That was very

             good.  I actually paid and got to listen to some of that.

             I didn't get to listen to all of it, but I thought it was

             really great.  So thank you, and thank you for joining

             ours.

                     What other thoughts do y'all have?  I see Donna has

             something.

                     AUDIENCE MEMBER 1:  (No audio.)

                     CAROLYN PHILLIPS:  I see that Lee said that she

             can't get her microphone to work.  Is there anything you'd

             like to share with us in the text box, Lee?  And I think

             also, this is a conversation that we're definitely going to

             need to continue because there is so much -- so many

             different strategies.  And as y'all are growing your grants

             and growing your programs, it would be great to know how

             you're doing that.  How are you raising awareness?  How are

             you locating equipment?

                     I see that Lee actually said, "I'm trying equipment

             drives in collaboration with rehab hospitals, and be picky

             about the equipment you take."

                     Absolutely.  That is some good advice, Lee.  And I

             appreciate you sharing the whole conversation that it can

             be a lot of white elephants out there, things that look

             very attractive to your organization that definitely are

             not a good thing.

                     So yes, and, Lee, thank you.  You also said that

             you'd be happy to share some flyers.  Other things that

             you've developed and all of you have developed, if you

             could share those with us, I think that would be helpful.

             We would love to include that on the Web site.  And

             actually, Tom Patterson just said that, it looks like.  So

             we definitely would welcome all of that information.  It'd

             be building, once again, towards the whole thing of

             "working smarter, not harder."  So you're welcome to steal

             any of the information that we've done in order to promote

             what you're doing locally.  No problem.

                     Other thoughts or other comments that y'all would

             like to make?  And once again, I'm curious about Project

             MEND, what your experience was in Texas and if that -- if

             that bill actually helped you at all.

                     TOM PATTERSON:  And Kim Walker from -- has a

             comment, Carolyn.  She said, "Carolyn, you spoke about

             looking for equipment on Web sites such as Craig's List or

             E-bay.  And this may be a little off topic, but has anyone

             had experience distributing equipment through those sites?"

                     And Lee responded, "We tried for a while without

             much success."

                     CAROLYN PHILLIPS:  Nell, have you seen where folks

             have tried that, what Kim was suggesting?  And, Lee, thanks

             for letting us know your experience with that.

                     NELL BAILEY:  I'm sorry.  Was that trying to put

             equipment on to E-bay?

                     CAROLYN PHILLIPS:  Yes, on E-bay or Craig's List.

                     NELL BAILEY:  I don't know, but you know, of

             course, there's the AT Match system, which is, you know, an

             E-bay-like system.  And I did check that out, and I didn't

             see very much equipment listed on that.  Sarah nor Sheila

             were on the call last week, and nobody mentioned AT Match,

             so I'm not sure how well that's working.  But when I

             checked that system -- that ATmatch.com system out, I

             didn't see very much equipment listed on there at all.

                     CAROLYN PHILLIPS:  Okay.  Thank you, Nell.  What

             other thoughts or questions do y'all have and anything else

             that you'd like to share?  We sure do appreciate your time.

                     And as we said, we definitely want to learn from

             what you're doing, learn from what NATTAP is doing, learn

             from what's going on as far as raising awareness and

             locating equipment and getting more equipment out there.

             We definitely want to thank you for your time because we

             know this is time that you're spending with us, and we

             appreciate that and your ideas and definitely your support.

             We hope this is a conversation that continues, and we're

             definitely open to your suggestions.

                     Our next webinar, the one that we're going to be

             doing in August, is actually going to be focused on data

             collection.  So we'll be talking more about how exactly we

             need to do that and how we're going to move forward with

             data collection.

                     So we also are pulling together our schedule for

             the next year, and so I'm going to be contacting several of

             you to see if you could help us out by doing a webinar

             about specific activities that you're doing, and so expect

             some conversations about that.  We'd like to go ahead and

             lay out our plan for the next year so that we can all know

             when exactly we're meeting and what time and all of that.

                     So anyway, does anybody have anything else they'd

             like to share before we close?  Okay.  Thank you all, and

             thank you so much, Tom, for helping us out, getting this

             loaded and pushing the slides, and thank you very much.